What is love-shyness?

Love-shyness is a specific type of sometimes severe chronic shyness that impairs or prevents intimate relationships. It implies a degree of inhibition and reticence with potential partners that may be sufficiently severe to preclude participation in courtship, marriage and family roles. According to this definition, love-shy people may find it difficult if not impossible to be assertive in informal situations involving potential romantic or sexual partners. For example, a heterosexual love-shy man may in some cases have trouble initiating conversations with women because of strong feelings of social anxiety.

I’d say that 100 percent love-shy people are unable to do three things:

1. Approach a member of the opposite sex with romantic intent, even in the case of knowing that the result will not be a rejection.

2. Make romantic/sexual initiative towards a person you know without that person doing anything like that first, even in the case of knowing that the result will not be a rejection.

3. Unable to reciprocate romantic/sexual interest of others, ie they are often afraid to reciprocate indicators of interest.

For these reasons I think that it is nonsense to say that love-shyness is a mere social phobia. It is a much more narrow phobia and should be treated as such.

What isn’t love-shyness(!)

Inability to

1. Talk to members of the opposite sex when not taking romantic/sexual initiative without being horribly anxious
2. Make initiative to get to know better a member of the opposite sex they already met without romantic/sexual intention
3. Make a cold approach to a member of the opposite sex without romantic/sexual intention

are not signs of love-shyness but social phobia.

More to read about

A Wikipedia article on love-shyness had been deleted and I am currently looking for its archived version.

A Love-shy.com wiki article on love-shyness http://www.love-shy.com/lswiki/Love-shyness

27 thoughts on “What is love-shyness?

  1. Pingback: Love-shyness 1- my experience with love-shyness | thatincelblogger

  2. Pingback: Love-shyness 2- resources about love-shyness | thatincelblogger

  3. Pingback: Love-shyness 3 – thoughts and conclusions | thatincelblogger

  4. Pingback: Wikipedia – reasonable policy or TAC backslash? | thatincelblogger

  5. Sby deleted the linked article from wiki. I’m very sad, cause I’ve read it before, and it was very good. Plz everybody go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Zad68 (the user’s talk page who deleted it), and protest!
    He had no right, cause:
    – It’s not a disease: Yes, it’s a symptom, or group of symptoms.
    – It’s not listed in DSM-5: Well, it can be in DSM-6. We call that research.
    – He thinks … : If I don’t believe in ghosts, I don’t have a right to delete the ghost article.

    • “Sby deleted the linked article from wiki. I’m very sad, cause I’ve read it before, and it was very good.”

      Unfortunately, I have to agree that it had no place there.

      “Plz everybody go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Zad68 (the user’s talk page who deleted it), and protest!”

      I don’t think that’s how you bring articles back…

      “He had no right, cause:
      – It’s not a disease: Yes, it’s a symptom, or group of symptoms.
      – It’s not listed in DSM-5: Well, it can be in DSM-6. We call that research.
      – He thinks … : If I don’t believe in ghosts, I don’t have a right to delete the ghost article.”

      – But it’s not an recognized disease as in a phobia.
      – No, it won’t be. Unless scientists take their head out of their asses in won’t be in DSM-1000 either.
      – A bad parallel.

      Hey, I’m the main incel guy, but you’re making bad arguments for it being back. The problem isn’t Wikipedia but dumb scientists.

  6. Pingback: Replies to Miss Tarnished’s questions | thatincelblogger

  7. I think I can contribute here and hopefully my story can give the Incels and others here something to consider.

    I developed love-shyness at around the age of 13. At the time I certainly met all of the criteria for the diagnosis of being love shy so elegantly described on this website. I was NOT born love-shy, it developed in me involuntarily. However, I want to make it clear, I wasn’t shy, just love-shy. In other words, I could talk to girls in normal conversations but was simply unable to approach a woman with romantic intent, even in the case of knowing that the result will not be a rejection. I had no problem talking to women but trying any kind of sexual moves filled me with terrible anxiousness and dread. I just couldn’t bring myself to even try. I felt myself inadequate even if I was sure the woman had romantic interest in me. Over the years I have left more women than I can count wondering why I never tried anything with them. Some might have even thought I was “gay” although, I think it is very clear to anyone who has ever met me that I am a straight male.

    You have to understand that I turned 13 in 1976. At the time there were no groups to talk to about all this stuff. It was long before the Internet was even invented and at the time, I thought I was alone in my suffering. I had no idea that my condition was called “love-shy” and that others actually suffered the same affliction. I just thought I was a loser and I guess I really was. However my love-shyness didn’t go away as I got older, I stayed that way throughout my 20s. In fact, the older I got, the more difficult it became for me because the older I got, the more experience I was expected to have to be considered “normal” and this only increased my anxiety.

    I wasn’t a bad looking guy, I was born to German/English parents and wasn’t ugly or anything like that. I am over 6ft tall, with thick straight blonde hair and blue eyes. I wasn’t fat, in fact, I was slightly skinny, my biggest problem with my looks, if I had one at all, was an inability to gain weight. Women often looked at me with lust in their eyes, flirting with me, trying to talk to me and trying to get me interested in them, trying to get me to go for it. Even when I knew that they were interested, sadly, I just couldn’t do it. The reasons for my love-shyness were varied and are not really the point of my post here so I won’t really go into the reasons for my extreme anxiety but I really did work on overcoming it. It was a very slow process.

    However, it certainly wasn’t the lack of a sex drive that caused my problems. I started masturbating when I was only 6 years old. In fact, by the time I turned 13 I was masturbating every single day, often times many times a day. Sometimes all night long! I became very good at satisfying my sexual urges. I could cum many times in one session, most of the time I could cum and cum and cum until I had no more sperm in me, and then I would have several dry orgasms!! Once I found out what sexual kinks excited me the most it was very easy to satisfy myself. I lived in sexual bliss in spite the fact that I had never even touched a woman. Good sex is a combination of mind and body in perfect harmony. To this day I am forever thankful that I found this pure pleasure to get me through my depression over what I thought I was missing in my life.

    It wasn’t until the Internet was invented that I found an outlet to overcome my extreme love-shyness. I overcame it by talking to women on-line, practicing sexual intent with them in the privacy of my own bedroom. To them I probably seemed like a normal 30+ year old guy. Of course I couldn’t tell them about my sexual past, or lack of one, but during this time I learned how to talk to women in sexual ways. I practiced with 100s of women I met in AOL chat rooms and a few other places on-line. Because I wasn’t face-to-face with them I could reduce my anxiety and I found that chatting was my salvation. I had cyber sex and phone sex with 100s of women, married and single, sharing fantasies over the computer and on the phone and more often than not having orgasms with them. I became very good at bringing women to orgasms over the phone by simply sharing my fantasies with them. Not just a few women but litterally100s of them! For awhile I thought that I could only have phone sex and not real sex. However, slowly my extreme anxiety subsided but it took me well into my 30s before I could even ask a woman on a date in real life, and eventually I was able to kiss a woman. This was a huge advance for me. I will never forget my first kiss, I was 35 years old!! I eventually advanced enough to finally lose my virginity shortly after my 36th birthday. My virginity was a secret and a shame I kept very well hidden. I’m certain many of you reading this are thinking what a loser I am, what a fool I must have been and some of you might not be able to relate to my experience, especially those of you who are Incels. Some of you might even envy me for being so attractive to girls but yet too inept to take what I could easily get, if not for my own fears and anxieties.

    However, once I finally had real sex, it wasn’t nearly as good as I expected it to be. Like most things that you can’t have, I had built it up in my mind how totally awesome it would be, so when I finally got it for real, it was a big let down to what I always dreamed it would be like. At first I thought that my inexperience was the reason it wasn’t as good as I had hoped. I figured that I was rather clumsy and with a little practice it would become more fulfilling but that didn’t turn out to be true. For awhile I thought that if I just got a hotter girl that I would be satisfied. But I tried with several women who I found extremely attractive, trying desperately to find fulfillment in it but I finally came to the conclusion that masturbating was just so much more satisfying than the real thing. In my imagination I only have to deal with the best parts of sex. It wasn’t until I had a real girlfriend that I realized how much shit I had to deal with. Not only the fact that I had to do sexual things to satisfy her that did nothing for me but also having to deal with the nagging women, the insecurities women have, the emotional swings women go through, etc… etc… etc…. In my mind, women are always perfect, just the way I want them to be but in real life, they are real people with real problems and I don’t like having to deal with them. In my fantasies they are always ready for sex, always doing and saying exactly what excites me but in real life, they are not like that at all. I don’t blame women for this, its not their fault that they can’t live up to my fantasies, I mean, how could they?

    Some might find this kinda funny and strange but I came to a couple of conclusions. First, I enjoyed masturbation much more than I enjoyed actual sex, and second, that girlfriends are a pain in the butt. I get nothing out of cuddling with them after sex. I get nothing out of spending my money on them. I get nothing out of dating or living with them, sharing a bathroom and the companionship I got from them. Frankly, I found them uninteresting to spend time with, selfish, tiresome and I generally was happier when I broke up with them. I am much happier hanging out with guy friends than hanging out with girlfriends. I guess I can just relate to men better. I have no interest in raising children and playing house with women. To me, they are like a totally different species than guys are. To be completely honest, I lost interest in playing the game. I was like a dog who always wanted a bone because I only imagined how wonderful it would be, only to find out that when I finally got one, I didn’t like the way it tasted. I have tried many different kinds of bones and didn’t really like any of them and I had to do far too much to get them. By the time I hit 45 years old I decided to give up on women and sexual relationships.

    I also realized that because I didn’t waste money and time on women, that I became much more successful financially. I have much more spare time to do things I enjoy. I could afford to buy a nice house and a nice car, I had money in the bank and invested it and was able to build it up to the point that I can now retire and live off of my investments. I just turned 50 this year and I have quit my job, bought a boat and an RV and lots of really cool toys. I can satisfy myself, I don’t need women for sex or companionship. I stopped wasting my time playing the game of relationships. I am now calmer, happier, less stressful than anytime in my life. I have friends that I can do things with and If I really want real sex I can still get it relatively easily but the truth is, I don’t want it. I guess I’m just better at satisfying myself than I am satisfying others. I still masturbate often and still enjoy it. My fantasies blow doors on anything any woman can give me and every type of woman I can imagine is at my fingertips on millions of porn sites that can easily excite me. Also, I like being able to have a variety of woman depending on my moods and desires. Call me shallow, call me narrow and abnormal all you want, but just make sure you call me happy too, because I truly am.

    My advice to the Involuntary celibate men out there is simply this: sex is really not worth the time or effort. Don’t make yourself miserable trying to get someone who you might find you really didn’t want in the first place. I urge you to master self love because once you find your sexual kinks, it is the most satisfying sex I have ever found. I do believe that most women are rather selfish and self absorbed, but I can’t really blame them because so am I! Further, I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. Don’t be an Incel, be a Vcel (voluntary celibate) because the real thing will never be able to live up to your fantasies. If you want a kid then by all means find a woman and have one or adopt one, if you can stand raising someone else’s child, but don’t rely on a woman for your happiness. Happiness comes from within! As for me, sex and relationships with women have become obsolete.

    • I appreciate your post but

      1. Please note that incel isn’t just about sex.

      2. Don’t recommend volcel a lot here, especially not to young people – it can be dangerous and have an opposite effect of desired one.

    • I developed love shyness very early too, and it’s really frustrating not being able to even approach women, and even if I was considered attractive I don’t think it would have changed the situation so much. My social anxiety doesn’t help also, and I just could never see myself having romantic relationships with the opposite sex, and I still feel that way. I’ve run from chances many times, I don’t know, I’ve just always felt very inadeguate and patetich, I don’t realize how anyone could ever like a person like me, and I still think that way.
      In my case too there wasn’t a lack of interest, I also masturbated too much, so now I’ve stopped because I realized it’s useless. After I’ve started having severe depression (at 17 years old), as I still have, things worsened and I felt terrible.
      Recently I started struggling to live better and to work out,

    • I would love to know what a clinical psychologist would make of you. I’m not saying this in any cynical sense, but there is something very anti-social in what you were saying.

    • Thanks Tyler your post has cheered me up & made me think again. Reminds me of the saying “SEXUAL INTERCOURSE IS A POOR SUBSTITUTE FOR MASTURBATION” Good luck…..Roy Pryer.

  8. This 24 year old love shy man told he’s frinds he likes me he looks at me every day locks eyes with me got my number off my boy cuzzin he rings then don’t ring he only will talk when drunk then he’s still nevese he told me I make him nerves but he want talk in the day he ast me 4 a kiss but I said no he touched my hair and smiled then moved he’s hand he siad I like u u like me then said do u think ud fall in love with me esey then he got nevese again this has bin 4 8 mth now I see him every day but now he has gone away and only rang me 2 times in 2 mth plz can any 1 help me I have feelings 4 him he looks at me like am a qween but want talk or some days want look at me if I go clubin its like I’m invisabel help

  9. I dont think loveshyness can be cured. I have been terrified of women all my life even though they used to come on to me. I am now 70 & still a virgin. …Roy

      • Dear Mr Caamib thanks for your reply. A lot of people think Loveshyness is down to not being attractive to women but i was quite the opposite. Girls used to say i looked like a young David Essex. This didnt help as i had more to live up to. I used to shake like a leaf & make my excuses & leave. By the way as from today i am now 71. Time flys.

  10. I dont think there is a cure for loveshyness. I have been terrified of women all my life. I am now 70 & still a virgin.

  11. I read on the net the other day some guy “boasting” that he was the oldest loveshy man in england he was 60. I think that perhaps i might be as i am 71 & never been with a woman. …..could i be the oldest?

  12. Have any of you love-shy guys considered what it’s like for the female in love with you who desires you–sexually and every other way? I’ve been in love with a guy who has your same symptoms although I don’t know if there has ever been an actual diagnosis of him being love-shy–either by himself or a professional. I just know a friend of his from school told me he’s not shy per se but IS “extremely shy around women.” Although he was not completely lacking in ability to demonstrate attractiveness to me however, limited, the biggest problem that caused me such frustration that I finally had to go my own way: he never talked. It was impossible to have a conversation with him about anything. He didn’t ask questions and if I asked him any, his replies were short, one-word replies like: yes, no, o.k., thanks, you’re welcome, etc. When I went my own way, he made no attempt whatsoever to contact me. That was over 50 years ago! I still love him. He’s still single (me, too). I never see him anywhere so no opportunity to reacquaint. I regret the way in which I handled my frustration. I had no idea he would just let me go! It’s a lost cause–we’re now so old, what’s the use? But I’m still in love & still frustrated. I’m just curious if any of you have any understanding of what we gals go through or if you even care. Not being snotty here. I really would like to know.–Owl

    • Hi. I believe that had to be very frustrating for you and can relate to that. But what can I tell you? Obviously love-shyness isn’t a medical condition as in terms of some “romantic phobia” and I am certain I know why and why it won’t be. Up to around 100 years ago people hung out more and dating was considered evil so of course there were few LS men. Men were mostly introduced to their wives by their families etc. Right now it won’t be diagnosed as the society is already collapsing in every way so nobody is prepared to deal with anything of any importance anyway. That being said, you seem to be an old girl. How old are you?

      • Hi Caamib: You’re funny! Yes, I’m an old girl if you count the number of years I’ve spent on this planet (turned 76 two months ago); however, not in any other way. I look around 40–that’s the age everybody guesses me; that’s the age group I hang with. I feel as though in my 30’s. I dress young, move young, still love R&R, dancing, wine. Bought a girls’ bike this Spring as a treat to myself for finally bucking up and going through two complete knee replacements. Old saying: You’re only as old as you feel. So just be sure to touch the youngest within reach. (smile–my graphics not working) I haven’t spent a lot of time on this topic or the site on which we posted; however, your posts are the clearest I’ve read there. Are you the moderator? Just curious. Speaking of age, what is yours? I’ve seen your picture (if that’s you) and maybe you said in one of your posts but I don’t retain incidentals when concentrating on research. Best guess – based on picture & posts – I’d say you’re in your 60’s. I’m not very good at guessing age, though, so if I overshot, just chalk it up to flat corneas–mine. –Happy Trails

        • Please, try to aproach him! Even if you consider yourself old, I think you would be doing a favor for both of you. It is very suffocating knowing this story, so please! Please!

          On quick note: yes, I can imagine the frustrations of the girl. But I figure that in my generation that is 50 years younger, this pure love is more difficult to happen. And girls can be more active so I don’t think any opuld have an ounce of feelings for me after a month after they give up on me. That is how things probably are.

          And once again, please!

  13. Hi & thanks for your advice. I’m not sure I properly understand tho; are you suggesting I take the initiative to re-connect with him? After more than 50 years of complete silence? I wouldn’t have the nerve!!! Just imagine my embarrassment, disappointment, if he were to reject any attempt by me to get reacquainted! He might not even remember me! I would have to make an obvious overture as we have no social avenues of (say) ‘just running into each other.’ I’m not at all comfortable with that; it leaves me no ‘out’ for saving face. By chance, even at best, if we should meet again & if we still have feelings for each other, what’s the likely outcome? We are in our mid-70’s. When I think about him–daydream a little, I always see the man I met when we were both in our early 20’s. I see myself that way, too. But in reality, we surely have both changed a lot; and not for the better (as far as looking good). To me, he will always be 20-something but I have absolutely no idea of his potential reaction to how I have changed. While it is true that I look much younger than my age and I’m still considered attractive, there’s no way he could look at me and see the beautiful young woman he met so very long ago! I fear rejection. I guess, in a way, you could call me ‘love shy’ too; but of course not in the same way as a lifestyle. However, I would be much more inclined, excited, hopeful, if he were to contact me or to find out he arranged a way for us to ‘accidentally’ bump into each other! I would meet him more than half-way. Not only because of true desire, but it was my fault we parted. I didn’t intend my words/actions to have that result but since he failed to even phone me for an explanation, I have had no way to tell him the truth except for me to call HIM which I won’t/can’t do. He’s the man and he should make the next move. I’m stuck on that. Shuryon, I thank you very sincerely for your interest and suggestions. I don’t fully get all you implied (what is ‘opuld?’) but can recognize your kind heart. And, listen: You can’t be sure, if a gal disappears on you, that she doesn’t still care! You are guessing & there’s at least a 50% chance you’re wrong. I wish I could offer as much help to you as you have tried to do for me. Sometimes I’m tempted to say: “Hey, just blow it off! What’s the worst that can happen? You might be embarrassed? Well, my, my, and haven’t we lived through embarrassment before? Laugh it off and move on.” I mean that not only for myself, but as advice to all who are petrified into inaction. Lighten up. Take a chance. Ah, yeah–do you think we’d both be better off if we took (could take) our own advice? (smile) My best to you; I think you’re sweet; some gal is missing the boat. She’s probably waiting for you to call. Try it next time & let me know, ok?

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