Worst date of my life, on empathy and some facts about my situation

I feel extremely noxious about writing this post but just have to do it.

Well, I had my first sort of a date in 2013 and it turned out to be my worst first date ever, to a point where it was downright scary for both.

We met online, soon figured out we are living really close to each other and arranged a meeting. I wasn’t impressed by her looks, though they were quite above the acceptable minimum. She is a very dedicated musician, seemed smart, I couldn’t say if I had a bad feeling about it or not…. Intuition was never something I could rely on.

So, we sat down and start talking about our parents, how she moved so near me, about her instrument. I immediately noticed that she was very emotionally and intelectually robust, as well as the fact that there was no chemistry.  She simply somehow seemed repugnant in romantic context. I could not imagine kissing her or even touching her hand. I told her that I don’t see her as a potential girlfriend after some 10-15 minutes and she immediately agreed.

Soon after all hell broke loose. I was in a very bad mood that day and told her about my goals of wanting to write a book and then kill myself. And then all hell broke loose. She became very aroused, angrily saying I’m putting her in an uncomfortable position, that she doesn’t want to feel any blame and that I will surely never see her again. I tried to explain that it has nothing to do with her. I even repeated that I do not like her as a potential partner and that this is not some silly tactic to make her be with me.

Eventually, I asked her to listen to my story. She did, stopping me at one point during the part of my story on the early days when I was still too shy to even meet girls IRL, noting I’m extremely sensitive and asking me if I had any trauma with women before that, which I said I didn’t. She also interrupted me several times with bullshit like “There are many men who can’t approach women”.

As I was nearing the end of the story the atmosphere grew more and more tense. She was getting visibly agitated, not as in scared but angry and annoyed at me. When I finally finished I could barely ask for her opinion, as the tension grew even more and I basically shortened the final part a lot.

Her opinions simply stunned me. She started by claiming she thought something unimaginable had happened to me if I wanted to kill myself, and that made her so scared she wanted to leave right away. However, now that she heard the story she’s amazed I could be so selfish and egoistical because not only have many people suffered through worse (that famous “hungry kid in Africa” fallacy) but that she’s been through worse. And, of course, we are to never see each other or communicate again, which I was by that time completely in agreement with. When I tried to explain that I’m currently in a very bad condition because those SMS dating services are now gone she said I should go on trying on that dating site… yeah, the one where you either get no replies or replies by low quality women who don’t know what they want. And that I should  think about college more.

I honestly didn’t know what to say. I was too shocked to say more about why I am so fucked up now or  ask what she’s been through but would surely get no answer as she was already on her way out, visibly annoyed, disgusted and tired. Her voice saying “Goodbye” was full of derision.

I was very upset by all this. I knew she will certainly remove me from her friend list on Facebook so I did it myself first, sending her an angry message wishing she could never play her instrument again while retaining healthy hands and eyes, so that she might see what real problems are. She blocked me, as I expected.

What was all that about? What could she go through that could have been worse than my problems, which often incapacitated me for months, years? What was so much worse than going without a single kiss for more than 2 years while wanting it like crazy? Cancer? She passed every year in college up to now and spent her  days going to classes and nights playing in orchestra. Both of her parents were alive and working, as was her brother. She had no health problems I could notice and seemed really healthy. Only time she mentioned her problems was when she said how her profession is full of competition.

In all probability, she was just another regular woman who didn’t understand incel at all. I know very well how educated, intellectual types who don’t understand react. They react with disgust and empty phrases. Less educated or intelligent people people won’t react like she did – they will either try to give you honest, if naive, advice if they’re good natured or insult you or critize one aspect of you as that is the only cause of your incel. I’ve seen reactions similar to hers on forums and among several doctors. But I never had to chance to experience it after such a long conversation, face to face, with a person so close to me in age.

All of it was truly depressing and shocking. I remember a date I had in July 2011, with a fat girl who laughed just too much and by that point in the date we already agreed that there was no chemistry so I was free to tell the story. She listened to my story and didn’t react as this person did. Instead, she listened with interest and encouraged me later. She was not depressed about it or cried or anything, she just didn’t stop seeing me as a human being once I told the story.

So, yeah, she really is a cold, rude person. Unless something worse really did happen to her, but was it really that bad if she managed to turn out that good? I know there is no way to measure these things, but I am almost certain she was just a terrible, terrible bitch.

EDIT- facts on dating using mobile phone/Internet….

Looking for a girlfriend alone is hell for me – in about 20 dates I had since 2006 one was a stunning success in which I made the girl fall in love completely, one was pretty special, however not in romantic terms at that moment (we got together later, though) and 3 were pretty good each in their own way. I was only in a relationship with 2 out of these 5, and one of them was sexless while the other one was long distance.

Other 15 were various variatons of failure.

I had two dates in the spring of 2006 (both horrible failures), a date which was eventually first among three in summer 2006 (explained here), one date in late spring 2007(failure),  two dates in early summer 2007( one a stunning success, one a complete and expensive failure), two dates in 2008 (failures), one date in  April 2009 (which started a series of complicated events- I didn’t try with any more women or go to any more dates from that April, even before we started dating in November 2009 till we broke up), three dates in 2011 (one a sort of success, but not the right person for anybody, a weirdo), two failures.

2012- three failed dates, two successful ones and had sex with both girls more than once but if you consider the amount of time I’ve invested in dating after finally resolving to at least lose my virginity that year (I’ve spoken to at least 100 women) and the fact that both of these girls were toxic, spoiled trash all in all it was still a really frustrating experience.

Such amount of failure means that leaving me to deal with this on my own is a bad idea – my success rate is low enough that I am almost constantly angry and years go by without me finding a girlfriend.

EDIT 2 – to see just how hard it is to get a date using that site take notice that my last date before this was in late July 2012. I did have a girlfriend for a month a half in the meantime but before I did I was trying really hard to meet women, even more so after we broke up.

17 thoughts on “Worst date of my life, on empathy and some facts about my situation

  1. That you would even think of having such a conversation with a woman shows how much more reasonable women must be in your country than in America. Telling such a story to an American woman would be like Jew complaining about historical Jewish oppression to a Nazi.

    The best solution is to get a dog. I have had long conversations with mine about various issues and she listens attentively and has yet to make a stupid or insensitive remark.

      • Of course I am not entirely serious. The point is that it is very difficult to find reasonable people to have a conversation with, so one is often better off just talking to oneself. Having a pet gives one some harmless company. If I am thinking through a difficult programming problem and my dog is around, I will often describe the problem to the dog as a pleasant way of thinking it through.

    • Franklin:
      ‘Succeeding’ with American women is worse than being INCEL. Everytime I have to talk to one, I feel like I need to take a bath in tomato juice afterwards.

  2. I think that she was probably annoyed at something other than what you were telling her: she couldn’t stand your genes. If you had different genes, she’d be hanging on your every word, but if you have genes that she deems unacceptable, then she will be annoyed at every word that comes out of your mouth. Seems that’s basically how it works with women…if it’s sexy, they love it and it’s good; if it’s unsexy, they want it dead. They have a very convoluted train of though but they are driven by very basic forces.

  3. Talk about the date from hell.

    That poor woman.

    So, you finally get a date with a real live girl. First you reject her, nice job. “Emotionally robust?” What does that actually mean? She wasn’t desperate or needy enough? Then after rejecting her, you tell her that being incel is going to make you kill yourself. Yeah, great move there, sport. Gosh, I wonder why some great gal hasn’t snapped you up yet. Yes, as a matter fact you did put her in an uncomfortable position. She just met you, and you tell her that lack of girlfriend makes you suicidal. Then you tell her your eye-glazing life story and freak out because she tells you some seriously non-bullshit that you’re not the specialist snowflake in the world and that there are plenty of men who lack social confidence. I find myself agreeing with her the whole time I’m reading this sob story. If nothing deeply traumatic has happened, but you want to die because lack of pussy, then she was right to get annoyed with you. And you don’t know what may happened in her life, so maybe it was worse than lack of social skills. She’s a cold rude person, after what you put her through? And then you leave a nasty message on Facebook. How mature of you.

    Sorry, I know this blog is all about feeling sorry for you, but really? What could be worse than your problems? I dunno. Have a limb blown off in Afghanistan? Lose an eye? Go hungry for extended periods of time? Be homeless? Lose children to a drunk driver? Lose a sibling to alcohol abuse? Lose a parent? Both parents? There are all kinds of things that are worse than going two years without a kiss. Christ, if you’re 24 and suicidal, you need much, much more than a girlfriend.

    I’d recommend counseling, but only with a male counselor. If you want to talk to somebody, visit a coffee shop. Do some volunteer work. Take a class or two. Go for a fucking walk in the fresh air. Something other than wallow in self-pity, which is evidently not doing you any good at all.

    • Volunteering is a fantastic idea. I struggle with depression, especially in the winter, and helping others is a great way to interrupt the cycle of self-pity and self-hatred I get into. I still have problems, but I don’t have time to obsess about them, if that makes sense.

      I would also suggest joining a faith community if that’s at all an appealing option. Faith communities offer a kind of community that doesn’t seem to exist anywhere else, and if you find a good one, they’ll welcome you into the fold immediately. If you’re atheist or agnostic, or don’t know where to start, you could try a Unitarian Universalist church – they’re welcoming of all faiths and types of people (hell, I’m an atheist, and we apparently make up 20% of UUs).

      Support groups are also a good option. If there isn’t a singles or loveshy support group in your city, you could start a MeetUp group.

      • The problem stems from the fact that the vast majority of women are not worth meeting in the first place. Do realize that, in America, almost 1/4 women are addicted to prescription psychiatriac drugs? Almost 2/3 are not functionally literate; 1/4 have children out of wedlock and 2/5 have had abortions.

        Only 1/4 children live with BOTH their natural parents; and of our 60%+ divorce rate, nearly 9 in 10 are caused by women. ‘Female Dissatifaction’ is the reason most commonly given reason for ending a relationship here. This is in addition to a 36% female obesity rate, which makes many unattractive to men from the outset.

        It’s normal to feel depressed under these circumstances. The social condition for American men is akin to famine conditions in the physical realm. What men need to do, first and foremost, is understand that the problem is caused by a social situation largely outside their control; ignore the media Shaming Language directed against them; and move on from there.

    • “She just met you, and you tell her that lack of girlfriend makes you suicidal.”
      Probably a bad move, yes.

      ” If nothing deeply traumatic has happened, but you want to die because lack of pussy, then she was right to get annoyed with you.”

      No, it just means she was as insensitive and clueless as you are. But at this point, I’m not even sure I can blame her – few people know about incel and what it can do.

      ” She’s a cold rude person, after what you put her through?”
      Put her through what? A long boring story she didn’t want to hear? Inadvertently making her mistakenly feel like she owes him something? I’ve had worse, and if you don’t want to deal with this and don’t understand it, you can walk away. That’s what reasonable people do.

      “What could be worse than your problems? I dunno. Have a limb blown off in Afghanistan? Lose an eye? Go hungry for extended periods of time?”
      I sure hope you are never near any depressed suicidal people in real life, kindly helping them out by telling them they are just whiny because they didn’t have anything dramatic happen to them.

      ” Do some volunteer work. Take a class or two. Go for a fucking walk in the fresh air. Something other than wallow in self-pity, which is evidently not doing you any good at all.”
      I agree with this. I think if your message was shortened to that, it would have been perfect.

  4. Several points:

    First of all, “chemistry” occasionally happens instantly, but much more often it takes time to develop as you get to know the other person better. So expecting some amazing spark to strike both of you just fifteen minutes into your first ever meeting is… well, just a tiny bit optimistic.

    (By way of comparison, NONE of my longest-standing girlfriends, very much including my wife, had that kind of effect on me at first, and I’m sure the feeling was mutual. In fact, I found one girlfriend actively annoying at first, but we not only went on to have a seven-year relationship but she remains one of my closest friends to this day.)

    Secondly, just about the worst possible thing you can do on a first date is talk about previous dating disasters. Seriously: it’s about the biggest turnoff imaginable, not least because you’ll almost invariably reveal things about yourself that really should stay under wraps until you get to know the other person better. It also makes you sound desperate, which is a VERY bad idea in situations like this.

    Thirdly… sorry, but I’m with her. If someone talks to me about being suicidal, I expect there to be a really serious reason behind it. The last person who started that conversation with me had just been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, and was considering ending it all before she became physically incapable (thankfully, she didn’t, and in fact the progress of the disease was far slower than she’d anticipated). THAT’s the kind of thing your date was probably expecting to hear – so I can entirely understand her reaction when it turns out that you’re merely miffed about not getting your dick wet as often as you like. And I’m not surprised she was scared of you – you were basically switching on a giant flashing neon sign that said “I am dangerously unstable when it comes to sexual and emotional matters”.

    Seriously, look at what you wrote, and try to imagine how it comes across to a reasonable person.

    • Hell, revealing your deepest emotional pain to someone you’ve just met is just bad form in general, and suggests the person doing it either lacks respect for boundaries or is trying to forcibly create intimacy.

  5. Out of all the dates you’ve had that went badly, in how many of them did you mention suicide? Maybe that’s scaring people off.

  6. The basic problem is that our friend here is trying to accelerate things that shouldn’t be accelerated. It’s one thing to discuss intimate emotional pain pseudonymously via a blog, but quite another to discuss it with someone you’ve only just met and on whom you might have romantic and sexual designs. Depending on the circumstances, the latter can come very close to blackmail – after all, the message is essentially “if you don’t have sex with me, I’m going to kill myself!”

    I talked about this with my wife the other day, and we both agreed that things didn’t really ‘click’ between us for nearly a month. We hit it off from the start as friends (having near-identical senses of humor is a great social lubricant), but neither of us was thinking “this is my life partner” for a minimum of three weeks, even as a thought experiment – it just never occurred to us.

    The other crucial thing is that 24 is no age. I’d had one serious girlfriend by then, and in retrospect it wasn’t one of the happier relationships of my life, although I didn’t know any better at the time. And I suspect my ideas about dating, sex and relationships were pretty hair-raisingly immature back then, although they didn’t go quite as far as lobbying the government to provide comfort women.

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