(Note – I am not talking about incel “community”. There is no monolithic incel community and thus really no incel community at all, much like feminism isn’t a monolithic community and thus nobody really uses the term feminist community – another similarity would be differences in even defining feminism between various feminist groups. Also, obsessing with labels sucks).
Incels have basically entered the mainstream during the previous month. Sadly, they have done so in a worst possible way (and in a way that is actually pretty much unrelated to Alek Missanian attack) and this post will try to extrapolate why.
Somewhere in the chaos of these events a very important thing remained hidden – that I am pretty much responsible for the disaster that occurred.
In which way am I responsible?
I’ll start by saying in which way I am not. No, this insanity didn’t start because of my blog. Due to me trying to make something out my life and trying to escape incel I was actually posting less, not more. My traffic stats were never as high as they were in 2013 or 2014, before I even changed the nickname to caamib and started posting from a reactionary, anti-seduction point of view. And, naturally, with the advancing idiocracy my posts didn’t get all that much interest. They were complex, extremely anti-feminist and anti-modernist in nature, and simply weren’t clickbait for an average moron anymore. To say that my blog started the current insanity around incels would be simply wrong.
So what did? Well, in order to understand that we must go back some years. Two original incel (a term invented by a Canadian woman in 1997) communities were Love-shy.com, a site that takes its name from an unrecognized disorder called love-shyness that American psychologist Brian G. Gilmartin wrote about in his 1987 book Shyness & Love: Causes, Consequences, and Treatments, and the now defunct Incel Support.
Love-shy.com had originally been a site for men who had the sort of romantic phobia I described on this blog as early as 2013. But during its first years the site was mostly a wilderness, and years would pass without posts. What really got the site running was appereance of first actual incels – men who weren’t phobic about romantically approaching women but still couldn’t have found girlfriends or unpaid sex. Today the site still exists but it had sunk into irrelevancy. Nobody even mentioned the site during these recent events. It is shut down to public view and requires registration to even see the forums. Yet, this site was once known and hated. There was a time when leftists did hate that site, despite all of its offenses being trivial to what is currently produced by some calling themselves incels. A liberal pseudowiki, RationalWiki, even made an article about it some years ago https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Love-shy.com. Yet, Love-shy.com is currently dead as a door nail.
Now, I know most of my readers will ask themselves what the hell Incel Support ever was. Well, that site was somewhat like… Imagine all the current leftist hacks that do attack the term incel posting in a forum and calling themselves incel. It was everything you’d never imagine it to be, an extremely politically correct place where you got banned if you said it is more likely for men to be incel than women and where you got attacked for any “sexist” remarks, led by a several crazy women. I remember a thread on Incel Support on the 2009 George Sodini shooting, which was actually a first recently documented case of incel shootings. All of them agreed that incel was not his primary problem (what’s over 20 years without a girlfriend and sex?) and such bullshit, it was that sort of a place. The place was hilarious and am sad that it had disappeared since 2013 for it would have been a riot to see how it would have dealt with what happened now. By the way, it is interesting to know that there were shaming articles on George Sodini from 2009 on feminist sites – this is just one example. These things have been around for a long time, in a slightly tamer form.
That was mostly all of it regarding incel forums. The next incel forum to appear was the now dead PUAHate, that deleted when its poster Elliot Rodger murdered six people in his well known 2014 massacre. The community soon continued under a different name, calling itself Sluthate. A fork of Sluthate was another forum called Lookism. I won’t be linking to either of these as I despise them, but I would recommend anybody interested in what is going on to see what these forums are still about, though mostly ghost towns. All the insane bullshit of putting -cel behind every word, Chads, Stacies etc is already there and was present in around 2014 and 2015, but nobody cared about it in this way.
What is it that made the term so popular after 2016 and why did I put the word disaster in my post?
That is the most important part of this post. It is exclusively my responsibility that things turned out this way.
In early 2016 not much was going on with any of the incel posters . Elliot Rodger was already mostly forgotten, their websites didn’t get many views, everything was stagnating. But then, in a remarkable series of events and through Reddit censorship combined gross incompetence and negligence of some people it took little over 2 years for this term to suddenly be equated with a group of disgusting, low IQ people who, ironically, didn’t use this term much if at all before.
But let us go back to where this latest story starts.
In around January 2016, I’ve encountered a tweet by one of my followers promoting a subreddit called r/Truecels. I checked the subreddit out and saw that its very sparsely populated, and noticed certain comments I felt shouldn’t be there. I wanted to help the person running it, a user called https://www.reddit.com/user/Bargh9 to run the platform and ban any obvious filth. I didn’t even plan on opening any threads or anything like that but I knew that his site would see an occasional idiot so I wanted to delete that. I didn’t even expect he’d accept what I asked him to, but he did and I became a moderated. After this, I promoted his tiny subreddit which had less than 100 subscribers with a post on my blog as well.
This was no easy situation even the first days, believe me. Bargh9 had a naive view of the free speech and made really no comments policy at all, explicitly saying his subreddit was “free speech”. You could have come to that sub, insulted and lied all you wanted to and you felt there was nothing one could have done against you. Without changing the rules of the subreddit, I put a stop to that, banning all the morons who couldn’t argue and used unfair tactics. I did so without caring what Bargh9 will do, as I simply considered that if he does demote me fuck him and his subreddit. Even during the first month or so, when the place was really empty, I had 3-4 morons I banned tell me that I am breaking the rules of the subreddit I am modding. And they were right at the time, technically ! I simply told them that I don’t care and that I will not unban their filth. They didn’t mind to a degree that they would complain to Bagrh9 or he simply didn’t care if they did so I, amazingly, managed to start basically running a good incel subredddit on my own.
Due to my moderation prowess, since I am an old school person who knows what is fair and what isn’t, the sub never became a cesspool it was meant to be and actually started attracting subscribers. And, believe me, this would not have happened without my moderation. The subreddit was destined to sink into obscurity, yet I prevented this. I installed a strict set of rules I only had in my head for a while, including banning all talk of incel just being about sex. It worked wonders for the quality of the community. You made a post on “not getting laid”? Poof, you were gone. You made an insulting, vapid post? Poof, you were gone. I went from banning from what was once maybe 2-3 people a month in February or March to banning up to 20-30 a day in May or June and the sub still grew extremely rapidly. I was cutting off the unhealthy tissue
But things got even better. I started posting my own threads there, trying to promote what actually causes incel and what are actual solutions. I started attracting the right kind of people – reactionaries, staunch anti-feminists, right wingers, or just regular people who wanted to converse on these subjects without breaking the rules. The site accepted noncel members and I can actually hardly remember anybody using a word “normie”. Those things just didn’t happen at the time, so I didn’t even have to moderate it. People were supportive of each other and applauded if somebody found success, even if it meant a one night stand. Men with girlfriends were congratulated and some of the best posters were in relationships or married. A woman who I had some of the most intellectually stimulating conversations with was a married mother of two in her mid 20s. It was simply amazing.
Now, of course, it was not all roses. During that time I had a severe break-down due to an event that took place in May 2016, when I met a woman who I thought would be an ideal girlfriend only for it to turn up she already has a boyfriend. That girl was the swan song of my beliefs that I could find a good girlfriend under normal conditions in the femisphere. And mind you, that was after I forgot about the consent nonsense with modern Western women. Little over a year later, in 2017, I treated the girl who actually wanted me at the time and became my girlfriend completely differently, making her controlled by others. The May 2016 events have made me pretty much bed ridden for an entire second half of May and the filth just piled on. Whenever I was too weak too moderate severe rule breaking would occur and there was no way to rely on anybody else. At one moment I even gave up on modding it. Some hours later I saw what was one of the worst breaking of site-wide rules I had ever seen on Reddit. At that moment I became so angry that I asked Bargh to be returned to Reddit via a specific account that would moderate content, and was granted that. Disgusting behavior of many of those who arrived on the sub is what motivated me to hold the reins even more. One other problem was that I was not the first mod and Bargh would occasionally put some lookist idiocy as a pinned post or write something insane I couldn’t remove but that was a small price to pay for really getting to moderate anybody else and us achieving popularity.
Other set of problems mostly related to what we were talking about – while none of us openly encouraged rape, me and several members believed it to be something worthless modern Western women deserve. Another problem was “pedophilia”. Of course, there was no actual pedophilia but there were posts that could have amounted to sexualization of minors. Yet I didn’t remove them at the time. Both of these problems would eventually destroy the project later.
But by early June some time passed and my mental state improved so I devoted even more energy to moderating it. And, all I can say once again is, this was often a hellish experience. The amount of stupidity, insanity and often just pure evil cruelty I’d see every day read before banning somebody was just frightening. There was no way to rely on anybody else despite there being other mods aside from me – if I didn’t appear online for 4-5 days the sub was basically a swamp when I came back. I mean to a point that there were posters opening threads about rules being broken everywhere. It would take hours to clean all the dirt that was left. It was exhausting even physically, let alone mentally.
But still, the community got better and better. When I played a 17 year-old on the now sadly removed Tinder version for minors, I got support for this. When I slept with a 16 year-old girl I met that way (some slut who already fucked many boys her age) I was congratulated. Sure, here and there I’d see a disturbing post like “Go away” but I’d just delete it and ban the moron. I had no idea what was to occur in just 2 short years.
Sadly, our activity attracted the attention of some Reddit scum that became bent on taking us down, but even in this case the differences between the situation than and now are quite obvious. People who hated me in June 2016 were all SJWs, posting on SJW subs. All of them were misandrist scum who got off on hating conservatives, right wingers and similar people. Those were the kind of people who hated us then. But, to skip to today for a second, people mocking what they currently see as incels aren’t all like that – there are many people who aren’t even that crazy and see the insanity that some incel communities are posting.
There were many waning signs of what would eventually happen. The first disturbing behavior by Reddit administration was the removal of my thread on May 2016 girl. They simply deleted the thread because one Reddit user, a notoriously insane SJW, claimed it is some kind of a “manifesto”. It was not a manifesto at all but described what happened with her, nor did it contain any violence or threats. Yet this insane person kept insisting that it is some kind of a “manifesto”, to my utter astonishment. The thread was eventually deleted for no reason at all. Worse was to come. In early July 2016 these people finally managed to quarantine r/Trucels. and Bargh9 and some other posters were permanently banned. Amazingly enough, this is what allowed me to move to a certain sub somebody had created for me in August 2013. It had the now ominous name of r/incels. I was suddenly a first mod and didn’t even need to use any other accounts for moderation (which alleviated mental and physical exhaustion I’d feel by constantly having to switch accounts). The most ominous warning sign is that I was suspended myself for about a week for “sexualization of minors”. Yet, when my suspension ended I was suddenly the undisputed king.
(IMPORTANT – And this was a unique moment in many ways. Suddenly I was, after having already gotten used to being pretty obscure in the last 2 years before that, running a sub of more than a thousand subscribers. Now I had almost 5 months of attention behind me. I had attracted a core of 15-20 extreme anti-feminists and reactionaries. We were everything most current incel communities were not. Maybe a half of the core members weren’t even incel and we looked more like some fascist sub at times. At one point some idiot I kept around because he didn’t break the rules at the time started laughing, asking what is this sub. We simply refused to look pathetic. and by pathetic I don’t mean that most of us weren’t incel at the time – I certainly considered myself that since I couldn’t find a girlfriend at the time and that 16 year-old girl turned out to be a one time thing. I mean that none of us called ourselves “genetic waste” or similar nonsense. But if you were incel we respected you and protected you. We would get female visitors and they were treated depending on what they wrote, not whether or not they were female. We started opening threads on current political events, like the attempted coup in Turkey. Our subreddit was trailing high on Google search engine.
All of this was achieved through my hard work of creating a community in which no bad behavior was tolerated. Hard work that had to be repeated almost all over again when we went to r/Incels since some of the scum I already banned on Truecels went back and started posting again. And during all of this I once again had no help. I put some of the most active members as mods but didn’t know how good they were. At least one turned out to be a disaster immediately, banning a polite woman who just disagreed with him twice, to which I had to unban her twice. Yet I kept him around. The thing is, from around July 15 the worst offenders were banned again, my moderation policies became already somewhat known and things have gotten a but more peaceful. Meanwhile, I had gotten a lot of attention, with a smaller amount of it negative. Most were some great and insightful posts. I admit that at that moment I got a bit dizzy with all this and couldn’t even think straight. I recently watched violentacrez interview on CNN and I started experiencing something similar – Reddit had become my drug. And in a positive way. The moment I started enjoying the attention I got and the moderation woes lessened I was feeling more relaxed and let my guard down, finally enjoying Reddit. What made this even more accentuated was that at the time I met an extremely attractive girl (different one from the May one, obviously) and believed something might happen with her. It didn’t, but I was to find that out only somewhat later and at the time it raised my spirits even more. Sure, there were problems even then. I did spend more time in front of a computer now, but I also pursued some things in real life and I’d miss entire huge threads with 200 or more posts. I didn’t sort through every post, and bad people were gathering on the edges while I couldn’t notice all of them. As I have already said, I have gotten no help at all from anybody ! Still, even with these blips I knew I was doing a good job. I did notice some first appearances of terms like “normie” and “Chad”, but didn’t moderate against it, thinking it’s just a meme by a few isolated individuals. I simply had no idea what the subreddit is going to turn into.
And mind you, and this is what is so tragic about how things turned out, ideas myself and fschmidt promoted were held by a small minority of what were thousands of subscribers. Most people were complete modernist scum that couldn’t even envision anything like a society in which seduction doesn’t work, women can’t vote or dating is controlled by religious groups or parents. They were like dumb fish in the sea that don’t know anything else. We made these things topics and kept lookism nonsense out. Tragically, it will soon be revealed just how little did most of the community think about our ideas but at that time we attracted the right kind of people and set up topics that actually mattered. And I remind you again, I achieved all of this basically myself – through banning likely over a 1,000 people since February and sometimes even 40-50 people a day when the subreddit got more visitors. It was a magical time without comparison to anything I did before online. The subreddit was something you would imagine if DarkEnglightenment subreddits suddenly became a) much more active b) focused on causes and solution of incel).
(Missing the crossroads – Had I known what I know now around 10 July 2016 was the time to stop and rethink my situation. Not necessarily to cease posting but to make serious arrangements to keep my account and the subreddit the best way I can. All talk on rape and “minor sexualization” should have stopped then and there, by both me and the core posters I gathered. And in a sense that would have also defanged what made the subreddit so great, but there was no real choice. I had to keep what I (not “we”, there was no we in this story) had achieved. I had to put absolutely loyal people as moderators, people who would nuke the subreddit had I told them. Everything past 10 July 2016 was just really a struggle for survival. Who knows what I would have done with my current knowledge? Started my own site, tried to get us on Voat immediately? Any of these options would have given us more free speech but involve losing any “fresh blood” in terms of new interested Redditors. fschmidt tried to warn me that everything might go down in flames easily but I couldn’t understand the gravity of his warnings or my situation at the time. What I was hooked up on was the attention, while having no idea how the often cutthroat world of reddit really works – that it banned people for much less (as in this case of an anti-SJW Frankenmine https://archive.is/5zS2q) and that ultimately my days were numbered whatever I did. And mind you, I am not sorry I posted on rape and sexualized “minors” because I believe this is wrong. It isn’t, but I had no choice after investing so much time and effort in that stupid site already. Had I known that the alternative would be what we’re seeing while I’m writing this in June 2018 (basically, the entire term being overtaken by insane people ! ), no price would have been too high to keep the account and the subreddit.)
Instead I just continued doing what I had been doing before. By around July 22 there were already several very disturbed individuals on Reddit watching my every step and I eventually gave them enough material to be finally permanently suspended for “sexualization of minors”. I did create two other accounts after that, but was by this time closely watched and soon banned. What is also tragic is that during that time I actually did two very important things with one of the alternative accounts, by placing a female moderator and opening a subreddit for love-shy people. However, all of that was not something Reddit administration cared about anymore. I was banned from all of my accounts and on the run.
Then I’ve taken a long break from all of that in August 2016. There wasn’t much I could have done anymore. The moderator that had put my two banned alternative accounts on moderator list told me to reappear in 2-3 weeks but I didn’t. I needed a break. I had no clear vision of what will happen to the subreddit. I knew that it will no longer be moderated as well but I must admit that I didn’t expect the catastrophe that was to occur. I knew that it would be too difficult for me to see even one post I knew had to be removed after all the hard work I have invested.
After that I have blundered in various ways. I tried to start a Voat incel community, but remember that moderator I put, who I said was a disaster? I said he was a bad mod and he didn’t like it, so he simply removed my thread. A simple thread promoting a Voat community. That was how he thanked me. There was probably no way to have a community there anyway, since Voat is a small, alt-right community based around politics but in any case I couldn’t really find the time. Next I heard that the amazing female moderator who kept the community sane by sometimes being there for 10 or more hours a day was doxxed and driven away.
Later on I tried promoting a new subreddit of my own (this was around Nov 2016). This was when I first saw just how much it changed. I was suddenly called a cuck and a normie for some rule (though my rules were much stricter than those on r/Incels) or just called a cuck for no reason. During that stay I saw posts on myself from people I kept around making incredibly vile accusations about me. One was a Russian man who was an asshole towards me as early as 2013 and who I considered banning the moment he started posting on Truecels, but his posts were usually of high quality so I kept him around. The other one was a woman who now wrote incredibly vile things about me, accusing me of having had the views I acquired in 2014 since I was born because reasons. That idiot I mentioned, the who laughed and asked what kind of a subreddit this was? Well he was now saying he believes I somehow made up all the stories on my life on this blog. It was truly both frightening and heartbreaking. Did I deserve this, I wondered? It was so rotten and despicable my eyes teared up.
Next is history. r/incels, led by incompetent moderators including the Russian idiot, sunk into more of a cesspool month after month. All the rifraff from Sluthate and Lookism now moved there, with absolutely nothing to stop them. All the bullshit you could have seen on their forums, where they barely used the term incel, was now on that sub. I felt nauseated by all of this. It was like seeing your home broken into and used by a bunch of drug addicts, with puke on the floor, all while you can no longer get in. I have tried to contact the person who initially founded the sub but their account had long since gone inactive. What was much more disturbing is that the first moderator, who could have helped me, simply ignored my requests despite being a part of fschmidt’s religious group. One of the moderators was https://www.reddit.com/user/azavii , who turned out to be the greatest disappointment. He simply refused to reinstate me and said that it would be now senseless anyway, given that the community had changed. Of course, this was likely correct but who allowed this to occur?
I visited again in July 2017, posting under a completely unrecognizable username, saying I found a girlfriend. The complete insanity that has overtaken long since was obvious. I was showered with insults and told to get out. Imagine the same occuring just a year before, in July 2016? All control over the subreddit had been completely lost. Eventually I started insulting these crazy people back, just to banned. The subreddit was by now a complete cesspool that looked like a convention of mentally challenged albinos.
By now there were already huge mocking communites targeting incels, and the tragic thing is, they had a lot to mock. Had I remained such communities would have showed up eventually, but would consist of few far-left crazies. Now even sane people saw a lot that was to be mocked. All the insanity of putting –cel after every word, calling everybody a cuck and everything a cope was right there, connected to the term incel. This was a process that started with my ban in July 2016. The subreddit, by now being a complete atrocity, was mercifully shut down in November 2017, having spent more than a year being a complete disaster.
And that’s the story of how I lost my sub that offered real reasons and solutions to incel and how the term got hijacked by maniacs, which the incompetent moderator team was unable to stop.
Alek Minassian attack simply saw the culture of places like Lookism and Sluthate being now carried over to the term incel itself. The most sickening thing is that these communities barely used the word before and that they both still exist but are pretty much ghostowns today. That they have overtaken the word is the fault of an extremely idiotic moderation team that couldn’t see what was right under their noses. Myself included !
This is a long post and I am obviously very hurt by this disaster. However, in truth, I wasn’t terribly upset by my Reddit ban in July 2016, as I had no idea that things would turn out so tragically. But to see something you built be overtaken by human scum and for consequences of it to be reflected in all of media is truly heartbreaking. It is one of the most traumatic things I’ve have ever had to live through. It is incredibly tragic that this took place, and would be completely unimaginable in most other situations in life. It is only the specific way Reddit operates that made this possible at all.
The truth is that could have had control of r/incels even today had I just made different choices (like merely posting on subreddits about cats).
For all of you who read this and know just how idiotic the groups that have taken over the current mainstream of the incel name, I want to tell you just one thing – I am indeed sorry. There was hardly a way for me to predict this would occur. If I could go back 2 years I assure you that it would not. But now there isn’t much I can do anymore but perchance start my own incel community. I was thinking about that a lot. Now, some of you know I am currently mostly hanging out with male sexualists like Eivind Berge, Tom Grauer, Holocaust21 and Nathan Larson (despite disagreeing with some things Nathan believes in) as these men still have some brains left. I ‘d start a community for incels and love-shy people, along with male sexualists. Please, if you read all of this huge text tell me what you think about the idea. As I said, there isn’t currently a single one incel community that is worth anything. All are complete disaster for way or the other. If you have any intelligence you will not be on any of these communities.
But things aren’t that simple. Starting a website/forum is different from starting a subreddit. Reddit is a huge community with thousands of subreddits but it is much more difficult to get people to register on your site specifically. Another problem is that my technical skills are poor and I know very little about hosting. The current disgusting incel forum was a consequence of a disgusting community but how am I to get a real community? I know about 15 people who will register but how do I get others?
With that in mind, on the issues of creating an online community, check this great video